Lots of studies show that Sweden is a family friendly country and one of the reasons is its generous parental leave system. Under the law parents can take paid leave for 480 days (16 months) for each child, and 90 days are exclusively reserved for each parent. The days don’t expire until the child turns 8 years old, and parents get about 80% of their income (with a cap,) which allows lots of Swedish parents to have great quality time with their children.

According to OECD, while only about 18% of fathers take parental leave internationally, 45.3% of Swedish fathers are taking parental leave. Also the number of days used per child born by men is 131.1 days on average, which is the highest in Scandinavia. This is resonated by the fact that lots of dads at DICE are taking long parental leave with an extra company benefit, and this is one of the good examples of how people in our studio appreciate work-life balance and drive gender equality.

In this post, Craig McLeod, Producer, is talking about his parental leave experience and why it’s important not only for employees but also for employers.

What is your role at DICE?

I work as a Producer with the Battlefield franchise.

You’re heading out on parental leave. How long will you be away?

For nearly 5 full months.

Tell me about your family! Is it your first child?

This is my second child and will be my second parental leave but I did the same thing with the first one. I got to take the first 6 weeks alongside my wife but after that she took the next 13 months and I followed on with another 5 months at the end. This setup just worked out best for our family in terms of balancing out responsibilities, our financials and the needs of our child. It was a really great experience.

Sounds great! Is that why you’re gonna do the same with your second child?

Absolutely, I loved it! It was amazing. It was an experience that I didn’t know that I needed until I had it. It is something that you cannot imagine before you do it.

The biggest thing that I got out of the first one, and I hope I get out of the second one too, is the ability to bond with my child on another level. My first child is now nearly 4 years old. He was completely attached to his mother, which was natural with maternity leave, being together every day, breastfeeding and napping together, they developed a really special relationship. Although they still like you as a father, something different develops when you are spending extended periods of time like that with them. When you are always there, when you’re providing all meals, when you go to the park every day, you develop a different type of relationship. I think it’s something that I didn’t know that I needed it until I had the chance to do it, and is something that I’m entirely grateful for.

If you didn’t know that it was so great until you did it, why did you decide to take such long parental leave with your first child?

Honestly, that’s because it was available to me. I probably wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t for the fact that the state allocates 90 days to the father. Even if I wanted to give them all away to my wife, Laura, I couldn’t. Because it was there, because I didn’t have to worry about the financial side of it, because you get the money from the state and also you get the top up from DICE (*1), and because other people told me, “it’s great, you should do it!”, I did, and it was absolutely fantastic.

(*1 DICE offers to full-time regular employees parental salary benefit that would bridge the gap between employees’ normal salaries and what they get from the state up to 90% of their regular salaries. How long they’d be paid would depend on how long they have been at the company. Terms apply and are specified in our collective bargain agreement.)

And this is your second child, so you know how amazing it’s gonna be to some extent. What do you look forward to the most?

The thing that I look forward to the most is to develop the same kind of relationship with my daughter that I had with my son. Right now she is very clingy to her mother, and I’m just so excited to develop a similar bond in our relationship. I’m excited to have 1 on 1 time, which I think is special.

You have the ability to create your own memories, your own relationship, to do something really special without an overhanging umbrella of work. You don’t need to worry about how you’re balancing everything. It’s not about spending a weekend and then thinking, “Oh I have that thing on Monday.” You can 100% focus on the family for extended periods of time. It creates a whole new focus with the safety, security and comfort that I don’t think I could get normally.

We’re all currently working from home and we have a little more time with our family in general. Do you still think it’s gonna be very different?

I think it’s gonna be very different. Right now I would be lying to myself if I said I haven’t seen her more because I can step away from work when I want and pop over to say hi. It’s really nice. But it is still very difficult because I’m constantly trying to balance everything. For me in a working from home situation, it’s very hard to fully focus on work while there are 2 children around. They don’t really understand what is going on when they are used to having you to themselves when you are at home. Once I can take away the distractions of all of my work responsibilities, all that is left will be, “this is your time together to grow your relationship.” That sounds really great.

It’ll be really interesting to see how it all works this time, though. I was talking to Laura about it and she was saying it’s very different when you’re on parental while somebody’s working at home as well. She said “You want to put the music on loud and dance, but you have to be mindful of other people who are working” “Small differences like that create a unique situation”. So in a way, we’re still trying to figure out what’s the best way to do it.

Last time, my son and I would go out twice a day. We went to the park every single morning and we were doing an outing every afternoon and that was wonderful. In the new coronavirus world, I’m not sure exactly what that means right now.

We’re living in an apartment in the city and we’re fortunate to have 2 balconies. On one of them we put down fake grass. It’s 9 square meters so it’s not huge but it’s not small either. We have a little slide out there, we have some toys, we have in a way created a small garden so that she can still get some fresh air and play outside whenever she wants. It’s interesting to see how we are having to adapt for sure.

It sounds really great. Even under the pandemic situation, it sounds like your parental leave is gonna be great. How does your wife see your arrangement?

What we noticed most is that going back to work for Laura was really tough when you’ve been away for 14 months. She was incredibly eager to get back, to be involved in work again, to add diversity to her daily and weekly routine, but she was nervous.

We talked about it a lot. She was genuinely worried about going back to work because for her it was like, “I’m leaving my baby for the first time.” The thing that made it much easier, and the thing that really helped our family, was knowing that I was going to be with our son at that time. He was going to be in safe hands and it’ll be the same way with our daughter. “I know everything's gonna be ok.” “I know I can focus on work.” “Everything would be great because my baby is going to you.”. That feeling of comfort and knowing that they are in loving family hands really helped her out, especially as we have no family in the country.

For me it was the polar opposite. I was thinking, “oh my god I’m now the sole caretaker, 5 days a week, while she is at work” “ Can I do this?” ”Am I going to do a good enough job?” ”How can I live up to the great job she did?”. I would be lying if I said the first 2 weeks weren’t a real struggle and adjustment but it all fell into place quickly after that. It started to become natural and I was truly sad when it was all over because I spent so long building such a wonderful relationship with my child.

I have a completely different point of view this time around. We know how it works now. Laura is excited to come back to work and carry on her career. I’m super excited to take this break and have father-daughter time. Because we’ve been through this before, everything feels more natural and we’re super excited about it.

You’re not the only one who takes long parental leave multiple times at DICE. Why do you think it’s possible in Sweden/DICE for dads to do this?

There are few things. One is it’s just a cultural thing in Sweden. There is a different value placed on family here. I’ve lived in Canada, America, Holland, UK and now in Sweden. In terms of societal values, Sweden views family-work life balance with the same importance as work obligations, if not even more so.

And it’s really interesting to see the company views the same way. I wasn’t expecting that and I’ve never really seen that before. It was quite a shock. I remember when we got to the first parental leave period, I was saying, “how do I take this time off?” “ how can it work?” but culturally the Swedes and DICE feel this is one of the most important parts of your life. I spoke to a number of people and they were saying to me, “you’re only taking 5 months off? That’s not very long!”, because lots of parents split 50/50 (out of 480 days). It made me realize how different our backgrounds had been up until this point.

The other thing is that you don’t really have to worry about the financial aspect of it. I get the money from the state which is really good but the real bonus here is the DICE supplement. It adds it up to about 90% of your wages, so you’re really taking virtually no hit from doing this, and that’s for up to 6 months for each child. So for me when I’m taking 5 months off, I’ll be at 90% of pay for the entire time, it means I don’t have to worry about the financial aspect of it.

The fact that it’s not financially taxing, the culture that we have in Sweden, that the people at DICE are encouraging you to do this, it’s really nice. And it’s true that people at DICE are actually excited for you. It makes such a huge difference when you hear, “Oh you’re gonna be on parental leave! That’s fantastic!”, or “Oh you’ll really enjoy it!” as opposed to, “Oh you’re going on parental? How are we gonna cover that?”. It is hugely comforting for someone who is not familiar with this type of system.

It’s great to have support from work and because it’s your second child, you know what’s waiting for you. But didn’t you feel worried about being away from work for such a long time when you did this for the first time?

The first time, yes. I was stressed about leaving my work but honestly, I was more stressed from wanting to make sure that I did a good enough job taking over from my wife. She was amazing!

My job is very busy, there’s always lots to do. I have grown up in cultures where work sees themselves to be the most important thing in your life and the idea of taking a lot of parental leave just doesn’t exist. It creates a feeling of pain and guilt. You’re like, “what about all the things that I have to do?” “What about the next 5 months?” “What about my responsibilities?”. You’re worried for your team and for those around you and putting a burden on them.

And then there is being worried for yourself. You would start thinking, “Would people realise that I’m not needed?” There are so many different things going through your mind. You think, “I might let other people down potentially by leaving things unfinished?” So yes, I definitely had those feelings the first time around.

However, because it’s built into the culture of Sweden and into DICE, we’re pretty good at handling it. So you plan for it for months in advance, because a) you know that you’re having a baby, and b) you know when you are taking over from your partner. There is a great process and network of people with which you can hand off items, to be able to tie things up to make sure that your work is all covered before you go. It allows you to feel comfortable in leaving, instead of just exiting and wondering.

Lot of parents are nervous about being away from work for a long time because they are worried about being forgotten, which stops lots of parents from taking extended parental leave outside Sweden, but it seems that’s not the case with you. It’s one of the reasons that you mentioned earlier but do you think it’s partially because you’ve established yourself at DICE and the team needs you?

That’s a great question...It’s hard to say but I don’t think so. Because whatever level you are at, there is always a competition. That is simply the nature of being at DICE. I’m surrounded by incredibly talented people, all of them driven and very capable.

I think there is always a risk, I think the difference for me is that it’s my second child, so I’ve done it before, but (also) you’re given this safety net within DICE. I know I’m not gonna lose out on my bonus, I’m not going to lose out on my holiday, I’m not losing out on my position. There is no risk that it will be removed or someone would take it. I have that security.

And if you work with a great team, like I do, what may also be happening is that you’re almost presenting an opportunity for others to grow or for them to prove themselves. When you come back, knowing your job is secured, we may have learned more about the talent within our studio, and we might actually be identifying more people who can take on work that I normally do, which in turn might end up making my life easier!

I also don’t feel threatened because I’ve seen it before in the studio. I was at DICE for 7 years before I went out for parental leave for the first time and I saw lots of people going on parental leave before me. They all headed off and they all came back, they all had incredibly positive experiences and they all returned to the same position. Yes, for sure the immediate things that you worked on were handed off to someone else, and quite often that might stay with them, but they come back to new opportunities befitting their position. Seeing this happen before, it helps a lot.

I was speaking with your department head before this interview, and the interesting thing about your case is that it’s Nika Bender that covers you. We think this is a great example of how encouraging men to take leave is leveling the playing field for women.

It’s really interesting that you mentioned that, because I’ve never considered that point. But maybe that’s a fantastic side of our culture at DICE or within Sweden. Nika is a fantastic hire! I’m so glad that she joined our team; she is incredibly talented. I love the fact that I can get an opportunity like this. Giving her an opportunity to grow and to be able to achieve her career goals while I can achieve my goals as a parent, that’s an amazing thing.

It’s interesting to see other sides of parental leave. It’s not an additional cost for the organisation, it’s got a positive impact on organisational development.

I think it can be a really nice trial period for people. For instance, while I go away, Nika will fill in. She’ll get a chance to work with new things and with greater visibility and responsibility. When I come back, even if that position is no longer available to her, at least she’s proven it to herself and to the studio, “we have this talent.” and “we’ve seen you do this.” In contrast, you have a safety net if it isn’t for you. If you didn’t enjoy it, or if you don’t feel ready for it, there is comfort in knowing that somebody is coming back to assist you again.

I’ve had similar opportunities at DICE. For instance, I got to run the live services for Star Wars Battlefront. Although not directly tied to someone going on parental leave, part of getting that opportunity was from people feeling comfortable enough having extended periods of leave, which in turn created an opportunity for me. If a similar role emerges again, people already know I am ready for it, “We’ve seen him deliver.” “He’s done that.”. It’s almost like a perfect training program in a way. I enjoyed it, it was a very positive thing for me. When I talked to Nika about embarking on a similar journey, she was a little nervous but only because she is quite new to the studio, not because she isn’t capable. She, along with a lot of others, myself included, relish this type of opportunity.

What was the handover process like? Nika joined the company recently, so you started it right after she joined DICE?

Yes, very soon after she joined the company. She joined the day after we were sent home (due to the Covid-19 pandemic.) On the day she joined, myself and 2 other colleagues came to the office, gave her a laptop, a phone, a couple of hours introduction into the project and sent her home. Since then she’s been working remotely, same as everyone else. We’ve had a few challenges being out of the office, but nothing we haven’t been able to overcome.

Having that lead time before you go on parental leave means you can do a slower handover, and at a pace that you both are comfortable with, especially if you are new to the team. We’ve talked about it a lot and both feel it worked very well overall. Another benefit that we have is working with live services and having deliverables every 2-3 weeks in the form of patches. With rapid iterations, you can gradually increase responsibilities with each patch from “You can look after this part of the patch.” to “You can look after the half of the patch.” to “ You can deliver this patch yourself.”. We had essentially 3-4 cycles where we could slowly increase her exposure to be able to own and run things and it creates confidence on both ends. It is incredibly comforting for me to know that everything is in good hands while I am away and I know I can truly switch off and focus on my family.

Are you interested in learning more about DICE? Here is our company LinkedIn page and you can check our current open roles at our website.

Life at DICE: Why 3 dads are going on (extended) parental leave - Craig McLeod

Life at DICE

CareerS

PLAYTESTING

LATEST

About DICE